Green Iz Best – Part 2

I’m still riding along on a wave of enthusiasm for all things Orky (as indeed all true greenskins do when a big Waaagh is in the offing). Next to come roaming across my painting desk, clad in their finest patch-work of looted armour and ready for a big scrap, are a couple of Ork Nobs – the first that I’ve painted in a number of years.

Here’s the first…

Ork Nobs Convert Or Die (1)Ork Nobs Convert Or Die (2)Ork Nobs Convert Or Die (3)Ork Nobs Convert Or Die (4)

…and here’s the second.

Ork Nobs Convert Or Die (10)Ork Nobs Convert Or Die (8)Ork Nobs Convert Or Die (9)Ork Nobs Convert Or Die (11)

Naturally as an Ork nob is a large model, roughly the size of a primaris space marine, I stuck him onto a 32mm base. At this point little did I realise that I might be flirting with controversy. It wasn’t until I was looking at some of my older models that I realised they are supposed to sit on the smaller 25mm bases. Most humans will be shrugging their shoulders at this point and thinking “so what” but trust me, for some people out there this kind of heresy makes the sort of shenanigans that Horus got up to seem like no more than a storm in a teacup. The size and type of base that a model is placed on is the sort of thing that gets a small sector of the population very worked up indeed. Personally I couldn’t give a monkey’s. I’m only raising this to clarify my position in advance, just in case anyone reading this thinks I might be trying to exploit some loophole or other. Naturally if you are one of those people who is distressed by this kind of carry on then please direct your hate mail to me via the usual channels.

Regardless I reckon this makes the models look an awful lot better than the silly little bases they were perched awkwardly on before so I went ahead and started rebasing all my old Nobs. Of course some of them could probably use being repainted whilst I’m about it but if I allow myself to get drawn into that I’ll probably never get anything done.

Ork Nobs Convert Or Die (5)Ork Nobs Convert Or Die (6)Ork Nobs Convert Or Die (7)

Personally I think this improves the look of the models hugely, and of course it makes them a little less top-heavy into the bargain. I’ll try to sort out the rest soon – watch this space.

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35 responses to “Green Iz Best – Part 2

  • theimperfectmodeller

    Looking at the size of the figures, which are very nice by the way, I think a 25mm base would not have looked right. From a personal perspective the size of the base doesn’t bother me but from an OCD perspective they do all have to be the same! Why 25mm anyway, is it a gaming issue?

    • Alexis West

      Yeah, base size can actually make quite a bit of difference*, and there’s a bit in the rules about how things should be on the bases they came with. But in typical GW fashion, it’s phrased more as a suggestion, and also has a bit indicating that they really don’t care, and you should just use whatever looks cool. Rebasing old Models on what their equivalents come with now is kind of the community standard, even tho it’s not actually one of the options listed in the Rulebook.

      For Age of Sigmar, they’ve actually started putting together lists of what should be on which size bases, but they haven’t gone that far with 40K yet.

      *8th has actually done a pretty good job of making there be both advantages and disadvantages. In most previous editions, larger bases were almost universally better.

      • Wudugast

        Yup, basically I agree with everything Alexis said on this (especially as she has forgotten a thousand times more about gaming than I will ever know). However I would add that for the average gamer I don’t think it’s really as big an issue as it’s sometimes portrayed. Some people will be doing it deliberately to try to work an angle or push an advantage and will be playing their game with that in mind. Also, if the two players are very evenly matched and have all other factors accounted for (so here we’re primarily talking about those on the top tables of tournaments) then any advantage can swing things. However for most people, unless you go around basing goblins on dinner plates, any difference will be lost amongst the other influencing factors (the level of familiarity each player has with the rules, the army they’re playing, the army their opponent is playing, the terrain, the scenario, the qualities – or otherwise – of the units in each force – both individually and in combination, and of course sheer blind luck).

        I would argue that for the average gamer a change of base size at this level would make no difference whatsoever, even if they are quite competitively minded other things will work to balance its influence. However the fact is that the average gamer is a young man, and young men – especially via the relative anonymity of the internet – will never admit to being anything other than above average (of course I was lucky enough to be brilliant at everything and I still am). The result is that when one is reading any online commentary or discussion one is left with the impression that everybody is playing in tournaments except you, everyone is at the top tables, that if you include certain models in your collection no-one will play against you because they’re “broken” (too powerful) or other models are a waste of money because they’re too weak. When I first got into the hobby I encountered all this and, being a young man at the time and thus caring far more than I do now about what hypothetical strangers might think of me, I really bought into all this stuff. Nowadays I recognise it as being mostly nonsense, but I’m aware that it’s something that some people still become very exercised about.

        As an aside (regarding “broken” units above) I always try to keep in mind that rules change at the stroke of a pen, whereas models tend to stick around a lot longer. For example when I started collecting the Vampire Counts for Warhammer (6th edition maybe? long ago basically) the current dire wolves models had just been released. At the time they were regarded as being horribly, horribly overpowered and the fact that I even wanted to put a single unit of them in my army was sure to make me out as the beardiest of win-at-all-costs no-fun-to-be-around players. A few years later I was startled to discover that the worm had turned entirely and that no-one would even consider adding such a useless unit to their army. It was a real learning moment for me, and probably the last time I listened to online consensus regarding what I did with my collection of models.

        There’s also the relaxed attitude of GW themselves which Alexis raised. Many of GW’s senior staff seem to hark back to an attitude that this is all just for fun, that the aim of the exercise is to enjoy yourself with similarly minded people seeing cool looking models in an immersive environment. They tend to say that a game with as many moving-parts as theirs can never be perfectly balanced and so the players themselves should take responsibility and act like adults in order to resolve any issues that arise. It’s a more casual way of seeing things which appeals to a lot of us, it’s a spirit and a culture around the games which often feels under siege from the more aggressively competitive gamers (hence my joke about sending in hate mail). I remember reading Jervis Johnson (one of GW’s longest standing and most influential developers) who said that when he started out he saw two senior developers playing a game and stopped to watch on the grounds that here he would see the finest tactical minds in the world doing battle and he’d pick up some good tips. One of the players took his unit of harpies and flew them across the battlefield to an isolated stand of trees on the edge of a marsh. This, thought Jervis, must be some brilliant tactical manoeuvre that would blindside everyone (because otherwise he certainly couldn’t see the point in it). As it turns out however there was no point to it at all, the player just thought that if he was a harpy that’s the kind of place he’d like to roost so he put them there. It’s an extreme example, and I’m not for a moment suggesting that all GW’s developers are just messing around anymore than I think that all tournament gamers are rules-bending obsessives who only care about coming first in a competitive math’s challenge, but it does serve to illustrate some of the stereotypes that get thrown around.

        Ultimately I’m not a gamer (occasional lapses notwithstanding) I’m here to paint miniatures and so aesthetic choices trump everything else for me. However if I could boil everything I’ve just rambled through saying into a few words and send it back in time to a younger me (and a lot of other people as well) it would be “relax, we’re here to have fun”. Ultimately a big part of the joy of this hobby is that it is such a broad church and so many people share an interest in it, but every one of them is looking for something different. It leads to some wonderful discussions but it also means sometimes one finds oneself aware that, for example, an aesthetic choice like this might just trigger a rage in someone dedicated to the rules (hence why I flagged it, and have subsequently yapped on about it – well done if you’ve read it to the end by the way!) πŸ˜€

      • theimperfectmodeller

        Interesting Alexis, thank you. Rules are rules I guess but as a non gamer it’s hard to see what difference it makes unless of course the base is significantly larger. The cooler the better is how I see it and I bet the gaming tables look all the better for a well based figure or army. As someone who likes vignettes and dioramas the base tends to be a significant so hence my curiosity.

      • Alexis West

        I’m personally in the camp of “go with what looks best”, but since I do understand why some people care about it, I figured I’d provide the technical details.

        It’s been an issue to some extent since shortly after the turn of the century, when Dreadnoughts first started coming with bases, and then a couple of years later, Terminators switched from being sold with 25mm bases to 40mm bases. The switch from basic SM being on 25mm to being on 32mm (late 2015, I think) really brought it to the forefront of the 40K discourse, tho.

    • Faust

      Hmm, I’m aware of the technical difference between bases in Necromunda, but not the other GW games. Blood Bowl has no rules for differences in bases, all players (minis) are assumed to be taking up the same space (1 square). Note, there might have been rules in earlier versions of Blood Bowl about base sizes, which I’m unaware of.

      In Necromunda, you measure distances from one base to the next, and check line of sight by the base the mini is on. So in a way, the larger base appears to be a disadvantage as you are easier to hit. Though I guess you get a small (5mm) range advantage by having a 30mm base vs a 25mm base? You also get a larger firing arc template to use. It still seems to me, that the larger base is a disadvantage overall, but I have not delved into the game properly yet.

      Is there something different in the rules of 40K/WH, that give larger bases an advantage?

      • theimperfectmodeller

        Ah, I can see the relevance and it make sense.

      • Wudugast

        Good point re Blood Bowl, perhaps another reason why it’s game design is so highly regarded. Afraid I’m no expert on the rules of 40k/AoS/WFB so I’d struggle to explain why it’s supposed to be advantageous to use larger bases. The main advantage I see is that if your army looks better then sensible, interesting people will be more likely to want to play against you. Plus the games will look better. πŸ˜€
        Part of the reason I get annoyed with 40k as a game is it’s too bogged down with rules and structures, the nature of which is such that one becomes anchored in a world of models and dice rolls rather than allowing it to breath. It’s another reason I find Necromunda so captivating; it’s too granular, too complex and has too many moving parts to allow a culture of obsessive min-maxing to take hold. The rules of the game should be like the strings of a puppet, they make things move but it’s better if you don’t see them.
        As you say there would be a 5mm range difference but really that’s so small it could hardly affect the game overall (although of course any sensible player would just give their opponent the benefit of the doubt anyway).
        The other interesting thing about Necromunda is that there are so many units without official models (brutes, pets etc) and so we don’t know what size base they’re “meant” to be on. Possible we never will. Who’s to say that your stigshambler or sheen bird is on the “right” size of base? In this way it harks back to the old days before Chapterhouse when 40k codexes contained lots of entries for which there were no models. Much as I love the modern era of GW I do miss the creativity that encouraged.

      • Faust

        Hunh, hadn’t thought about official bases for some of those Necromunda things. I guess I just assumed, like Blood Bowl, that you would just use the next largest base if it’s a bigger model.

        I did manage to pry off the bottom of the base that needed correcting. Now I have a small hole in my finger, haha. It’s a work in progress, but I think I figured out a few things along the way. One can hope.

        I’m certainly with you on simpler rules. I like rules that are fast, cover most any situation, provide lots of options, and stay out of the way of letting you play the game. Tall order!

      • Wudugast

        Well done on separating the model from the base, these fighting scars on our finger tips are what mark us out as hobby veterans!

        Speaking of Stigshamblers I’ve got the thinking half of mine done. Just need to finish building the hitting-half and he’ll be good to go!

      • Faust

        I’m debating if I’m going to “fix” more of them. Will see. Better to move on, and return to fixing at a later date, if I still think they really need it.

        Nice, I’ll have to read up on the Stigshambler. Cool sounding name, but not sure what it is. Haha!

  • Alexis West

    Looking good! Nice and grimy and ready to chop up some ‘umies and keep da boyz in line!

    Some of the pics that have been on Warhammer Community’s Orktober posts look very much like even the boyz are on 32s. Kinda makes me glad I sold off most of my Orks. Rebasing my Space Wolves was bad enough, and I had probably 2-3 times as many Models for the Orks.

    • Wudugast

      Oof – hadn’t noticed that. It’s never going to happen round my house though, I’ve got sixty-odd of the little dudes, there’s no way I’m going to rebase them. :-p The Nobs (glad you like them by the way) are enough work as it is…

      Plus, hassle though it must have been, I think space marines just look better on the bigger bases so at least there was that to comfort you (and everyone else that went through it). I’d packed in my old space marine army at around that time so I was able to give the whole issue a body swerve.

      • Alexis West

        I was actually one of the first to re-base a SM Army in my area. Whenever anyone asked why I went to that much work, I just said something along the lines of “Dude, look at them. They look awesome like that!”

  • Alex

    If you’re ever in a game where someone is pulling you up for the size of your bases, then you are in the wrong game… TBH, I’d go BIGGER on those bases – Orks don’t give a f***! πŸ™‚

  • Pete S/ SP

    Great work on those orks, really captured their orkiness- sod the base sizes; I put all of my GW stuff on washers….

    Cheers,

    Pete.

    • Wudugast

      Aye, I’ve noticed you do that, out of curiosity why? I approve completely of the rebellious spirit of doing things that way, just wondered why you choose to do it? Glad you like the orks πŸ™‚

      • Pete S/ SP

        Short answer: personal preference. Long answer: I started gaming with GW stuff and put everything on sltta bases with out thinking about it but after I moved to historicals and non-GW figures with low profile bases when I came back to doing GW stuff this year I decided to go with what I like rather than have (to my mind) the distracting black ring around every figure.

        Cheers,

        Pete.

      • Wudugast

        That makes sense. I always find bases a bit strange in that regard, somehow my eye tends to be tricked into not seeing them (to the point that I can make quite glaring errors with them and not notice for quite a while) but once I’m aware of them they are a bit weird – especially given how much effort we put in to making our models look realistic otherwise there is something odd about having them wandering about raised above the rest of the landscape on disks of black plastic…

    • Faust

      Having battled with the slotta bases as of late, I think washers would be a nice way to go! The advantages being cheap, low profile, and possibly great for magnetic storage (another thing I’m working on).

  • dreadaxe

    These guys look outstanding- very choppy indeed! πŸ‘

  • CC

    These are really nice and perfect inspiration as I’m about to start painting some orks for the first time in more than 10 years. How did you go about achieving the rust effects?

    • Wudugast

      Welcome back to the Waaagh! Funnily enough most of my Ork army was painted about ten years ago too, although I have added the odd model here and there since.

      For the rust I started by basecoating all the metal areas with boltgun metal, then gave them a wash of agrax earthshade, then nuln oil (you can vary this a bit, or only use one or the other on certain areas, the more you use the dirtier the metal will end up looking). Then for the rust itself I used sponge weathering. If you’re not familiar with the technique, you basically tear off a little pinch of sponge and dab it in some paint, then dab off most of the paint onto a tissue, and the dab the sponge onto the area you want looking rusty. I find it pays not to use too much paint and it’s easy to end up with too much on the sponge, so have a play on something you’re not too bothered about until you get the feel of it. I start with Rhinox Hide, then Mournfang Brown, then Skrag Brown, then Fire Dragon Bright. Scratches and chips are Stormhost Silver. Hope that helps πŸ™‚

      • CC

        Perfect! Will bear those paints in mind. Many thanks.

      • Faust

        I’ve tried sponge weathering, and just don’t have the technique down. I’m not sure if I even have a good sponge, but likely just need lots and lots of practice. Thanks for the info on the colors you used though, I can see where that mix of colors would yield a really nice rust effect. Well, combined with the technique you’ve worked on. The axe in the last pic, is a great example of how you’re mastering rust.

      • Wudugast

        Took me a while to get the knack of sponge weathering too, practice makes perfect and all that jazz πŸ™‚

  • Faust

    Paints are really nice and I’m liking the models quite a bit. I really love the Orc axes, so cool looking. I’m not a fan of the metal jaws and big metal jaw helmets. They remind me of Trapjaw from the He-Man universe, and look a bit too ridiculous for my taste. Personal pref and what not.

    Re-basing. So that came up for me recently, and I think I might have to take a guy off a base. I imagine chisel and/or Hobby knife are the norm? Bases likely don’t survive this sort of endeavor? I’ll have to think about work involved versus payoff in the end.

    Bases again. Nope, I’m not sending hate mail, haha! Looking at your bases and other fellow bloggers, I really need to get around to trying out different basing materials at some point. Hopefully it looks half as nice as yours, and doesn’t turn out to be a complete disaster!

    • Wudugast

      Ah, see we differ on the metal jaws, dunno what it is about them but I just love them! Never saw He-Man though, that might have coloured my opinions one way or another.

      Re-basing; allow me to share with you my wyrding ways. Chopping models off bases is something I’ve done many times over the years and with care both model and base should be fine. Take your clippers, the ones you use to remove parts from the sprue, and with the flat of the blade against the base, firmly but gently apply pressure to the join between the model and the base. Don’t think of it as snipping the model off the base, rather it’s more like a tiny vice, gently increasing the pressure until the two parts separate. Under pressure the model will break along the weakest point, that being the part where it’s glued. This also works for taking off arms etc.

      I know what you mean about trying different basing techniques, I tend to use the same method on all of mine just because it’s what I’m familiar with. Really need to expand my repertoire, especially if I find myself working on any models which wouldn’t live either underground or in some desolate far future wasteland. Greenery you say? What is this heresy!

      • Faust

        Thanks for the tips, man! I believe the offending mini in question was slotted. I’ll have to double check at home. If not, then likely one or both feet have been pinned. I imagine even with pinning, your technique should work.

        Try “no basing technique” for myself. I mainly just painted the bases. That’s worked well for Necromunda and Dwarven stone bases. Before that it was mainly, just paint a single color over the top of the base. I did experiment with adding rocky bits and stuff, but did not go well. They came off in the brush when I tried to paint over them. Oh, the horror.

      • Faust

        I probably should have mentioned that I did pick up some of the GW base textures awhile back. Probably with future Blood Bowl teams, I’ll get to try them out.

      • Wudugast

        That’s odd that things were coming unstuck (as it were) – what were you using to stick them down with? I just stick on any large components (rubble from sprues, plasticard, bits of chain and other decorative odds and ends) with super glue, then paint the rest of the base with PVA and dip the whole thing in fine gravel. Never had anything come apart unless it was taking a real battering. Still experimenting with the GW base textures myself.

      • Faust

        I think it was some white glue, sprinkle gravel bits over the top. Then when I tried to add watered down PVA type glue, it just started to come off on the brush. I have a feeling I was not using the right glue at all. Maybe it was Elmer’s glue? I bought some PVA glue a few months back, that a modeler actually suggested, so hopefully that stuff will work.

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